EU Referendum

[peternotbaldyet]

It's the millennium bug/Revelations/mad American 'end of the world' cultist bullsh!t laid out on a ballot paper. Put your cross in whichever box you choose. You'll see no real difference whatever the outcome!

[Pol]

The worst thing you can do is not to put your cross in a box that way fck all will change for sure.

[ldopas]

It's the millennium bug/Revelations/mad American 'end of the world' cultist bullsh!t laid out on a ballot paper. Put your cross in whichever box you choose. You'll see no real difference whatever the outcome!

Really? I beg to differ. If it is an out, there will be a shitload of difference, some good, some bad. Seeing how a lot of our treaties and agreements would be null and void. That is a difference.

It is OK I think to be shoegazingly negative about voting either way on some of the other things you mentioned, but not this.

[ldopas]

The worst thing you can do is not to put your cross in a box that way fck all will change for sure.

Completely agree! We may disagree on many things, but if you don't vote or even bother to bugger up your ballot as a "protest" as far as I'm concerned people have not got the right to comment!

[Anna Woman von NRW]

The worst thing you can do is not to put your cross in a box that way fck all will change for sure.

Completely agree! We may disagree on many things, but if you don't vote or even bother to bugger up your ballot as a "protest" as far as I'm concerned people have not got the right to comment!

Agree with both of these points but I'd also agree with someone taking the standpoint of refusing to engage in the whole charade 

I'm still inclined towards staying in but not a confirmed "remainer". I'e yet to a read anything which tells me what a Britain outside the EU would actually look like.  What does a stand alone Britain look like to the rest of the world? Where does it fit in?

A little bunch of islands off the north western coast of Europe going it alone may be brave but it could also be stupid. For instance, if we still want trade with the EU following an exit we will still have to abide by their trade rules and I suspect that the costs of doing business as a non-member will be higher. Workers rights are another thing -  who is going to regulate these post exit? Unfettered by any constraint how far might a government be prepared to go in the name of business? Habitat conservation, environmental protection, "green " issues more generally - again, what provision is made for these post exit, how strong would those safeguards really be?

I accept many of the arguments regarding flaws in the EU  but I don't get any sense of what is being offered post exit

[Pol]

Some very interesting points Anna , firstly is it all a charade - yes were all pissed off with it but democracy should always be embraced.
Nobody knows for sure what things will be like if we leave. We import a lot more than we export so surely it in the other European countries to do a deal quickly. Surely employment and other rights can be fought for can't see any government trying to take holidays redundancy payments etc away without a massive fight.
Would green issues be affected that much ?  - Currently our fishing boats are sitting in the harbour for environmental reason whilst boats from other countries are fishing there waters - how is that protecting fish
Why can't our shops sell goods in imperial measures if they want

[Master Ray]

OK, this is pure conjecture on my part but...

The EU seems to be a in a hell of a mess and, much as I would like to, I can't see it getting any better.  I'd go as far as to say the next couple of years will possibly / probably see enormous problems, especially if the hugely unstable Turkey is allowed in (yet they seem to be being fast-tracked, for no good reason that I can see!)

Wouldn't a hugely rich economy like the UK (fifth largest in the world!) become MORE attractive to potential investors if shit goes south in the EU and we had already beaten the rush and left early?  Boeing just announced that they're setting up European investment in the UK. These people aren't thick, they've got their $$$s in mind.  Surely others will follow?  I do understand that there might be an initial wobble, the pound going weak against the Euro etc in retaliation for us having the nerve to leave, but it might be better in the long run?  Especially if the multitude of problems in the EU get escalated, further and further...

As I said, it's my own silly conjecture, I don't claim to be an expert in politics or economics, but no more so than the predictions that others are making about what will happen to the UK in the face of something that has NEVER happened before.

Feel free to shoot me down on this.

 

[Bunny]

I cant really agree with it being a charade. To my mind its the principle of home rule and legislation or sovereign powers being delegated from a group of Nations. I think its very important.

No-one knows the outcome of coming out. The outcome of staying in is we stay as we are. Treaties etc can be renegotiated however and ultimately we stand on our own. I dont think we'll go back to workhouses and no electricity if we come out. We'll just go our own way. Same as those on the edges of Europe or any other Super state make their own decisions.

Im still not sure where im going.

[Pol]

Maybe if we do decide to leave, it will make work harder, show more pride in the UK , have that feeling that your doing it for a more localized good

[peternotbaldyet]

I think that in the event of an exit vote, there will be new treaties, New trade agreements.  Money talks. Where one door closes, another will open. Whatever the outcome, it will make no real difference to us ordinary souls.

[Anna Woman von NRW]

I used the word charade in my usual wafty wavy arm about way to indicate a nod to the idea of voter impotence and our ability to really change anything, after all someone said " if voting changed anything, they would make it illegal" :  true. I wan't really specifically referring to this particular electorate question.

The examples I used for questions about what comes after were maybe not framed too eloquently. But questions is what they where. They weren't certainties, they weren't my polemic.  Things I wondered about that this centralised polar debate don't ask.Workers rights are something I can quite easily see being voraciously ripped away by any party in thrall to the wet dream of actually being inside No. 10 (oh and it ain't all that - been there, seen it and I didn't buy the t shirt  ) Money talks and business rules and it's money/business that gets a government in power why will a brexit change that? And without some form of restraint via the EU (however flawed and in thrall to the same demons) where is the benefit to me and mine? As for green issues, these are areas of significant concern to me and these are issues relating to the eco-sphere which do not recognize or adopt arbitrary national boundaries. Without the EU the situation could be far worse than it is now. And given a choice between a bit of venture capital paying off or national park being left un-mined which way do you think things will go ?

I didn't make predictions, I wasn't claiming expertise, I was thinking a bit beyond daily express headlines and raising questions that occurred to me about something that will actually have quite a serious impact on the lives of us in the UK. And whilst those of us who where old enough had a voice and got thier say in joining, we've NEVER been asked about leaving before. Seems a good idea to ponder first.

[Isaac(Black Eagle Rising)]

I've been far away from nb for a long time and just back.The subject is interesting.First,I agree with Master Ray at some points, being a turkish person.Eu in a mess,it could be clearly seen.Now they say they will take us in and will pay for that and send back the huge part of refugees to here türkiye.Seems like a deal is done.I personally don't care if we're in eu or not.But it is hard for me to believe that we will be accepted.just watching talks,news etc.
But looking at UK from outside,in my opinion UK was UK already before and after EU.But that is my opinion as I said.The people who live in UK may think different of course..I can't know what may outcome bring but all thoughts shared here are really interesting and touching good points.(excuse my poor english)

[Anna Woman von NRW]

.(excuse my poor english)

None needed friend - better than our poor Turkish huh? Think it's great all other nationalities joining the conversation, a good reminder that it's not just about UK - Europe is bigger than that 

[Coumarin]

Over to you anna. "bete noir" youre much more clever than I can ever be

[Coumarin]

My French is ONE BEER. oh dear....