Author Topic: Where are all the Insects ?  (Read 3210 times)

Anna Woman von NRW

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2018, 07:58:16 PM »
Yep - I know the name Jaspers (from Kent) so not just a Black Country thing then.

Oh and though we don't like the feisty feckers they do, of course, have a valuable role as pollinators and predators  :D
Waving at the devil that I know and the devil that I don't

Bunny

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2018, 08:01:37 PM »
Yep - I know the name Jaspers (from Kent) so not just a Black Country thing then.

Oh and though we don't like the feisty feckers they do, of course, have a valuable role as pollinators and predators  :D
So do I. I dont however feel the need to don a stripey jacket to do so   ;D
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cthulhu

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2018, 11:56:07 AM »
When i read about the extinction of bees i was shocked. this was some years ago. i got this feeling: "well, now the chain-reaction of armageddon apocalypse doom has started."
bees are such fantastic creatures, we all use their products and many studies have been made and we all know that they are kind of intelligent. they are part of pop-culture, they appear in movies, etc..we all know how they work and that they are part oo the reproduction of plants. so when the plague began and they didn't know why, you immediately had in mind that now all the other plants will also die.

but i want to go here:
Well we talk about saving the world now, Eddie
It's our vanity gone mad
She'll survive us all perfectly well
When we're all long buried and dead


so yes, we are witnessing now big changes in our world, climate change, floods, insects dying, etc.. on a fast pace bur i think this is really about a change in perception. so no when we look at the world and notice less insects, warmer/colder weather, we become fearful and frightened, because the white coats give us their opinions and judgements, the experts tell us what to think and they all either say: "run! it's armageddon!" or they say: "no, there's nothing wrong here. go to sleep" but i think both posotions are untrue. untrue to the pure nature of change and the universe we just don't understand fully and never will. our bad feelings come from th ethings we know but don't act on. like wasting resources, organising everything under profit reasons so wasting more, producing bullshit under pressure and so on.

so i don't think that there is not enough space or food for everyone. there is! what's lacking is just the organisation of socoiety with the improving of life quality as the goal.
change that
change that only profit is the goal for almost every entrepreneur and everything will be fine!
change the way you think
change your feeling that there's no alternative, because there always is
change you feeling about the things that you think you need and then you always will have enough


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Anna Woman von NRW

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2018, 03:59:19 PM »
Ok well certainly some food for thought there cthulu and firstly a point of agreement:

so i don't think that there is not enough space or food for everyone. there is! what's lacking is just the organisation of socoiety with the improving of life quality as the goal.

I'm inclined to go with this as a basic truth but the trouble is that the required re-orientation of society/civilisation as we experience it today is too big a leap and with the speed of modern life just too big an ask - it will never happen and so we should be thinking of working within the parameters of where we are now if anything effective is to be achieved. Sad but true. As an aspiration sure lets aim for it but unfortunately I think reality bites a bit too hard.

I feel that perhaps you have got the perception wrong here somewhat. Short of detonating every single thermonucleur bomb at once nobody is actually saying humans will destroy the planet rather that we will create conditions whereby we find it extremely challenging for the human species to thrive and even perhaps continue - this is an entirely different proposition to destroying the planet - but an important distinction that seems to get cloudy.

I'm not sure that I understand the ideas behind all of your post but it seems like you are suggesting that human induced climate change is not real ? Or perhaps that the potential effects are exaggerated ? If so then sorry fella but I think you are wrong. The evidence led science is there and no credible evidence has been presented, peer reviewed and accepted to suggest otherwise. For sure vested interest will cherry pick studies to pseudo support various positions they wish to promote but that is the @game@ not the reality.

Intersting thoughts fella - thanks for engaging  :)
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cthulhu

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2018, 02:04:21 PM »
‘Hyperalarming’ study shows massive insect loss

Insects around the world are in a crisis, according to a small but growing number of long-term studies showing dramatic declines in invertebrate populations. A new report suggests that the problem is more widespread than scientists realized. Huge numbers of bugs have been lost in a pristine national forest in Puerto Rico, the study found, and the forest’s insect-eating animals have gone missing, too.

In 2014, an international team of biologists estimated that, in the past 35 years, the abundance of invertebrates such as beetles and bees had decreased by 45 percent. In places where long-term insect data are available, mainly in Europe, insect numbers are plummeting. A study last year showed a 76 percent decrease in flying insects in the past few decades in German nature preserves.

The latest report, published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, shows that this startling loss of insect abundance extends to the Americas. The study’s authors implicate climate change in the loss of tropical invertebrates.

“This study in PNAS is a real wake-up call — a clarion call — that the phenomenon could be much, much bigger, and across many more ecosystems,” said David Wagner, an expert in invertebrate conservation at the University of Connecticut who was not involved with this research. He added: “This is one of the most disturbing articles I have ever read.”


Bradford Lister, a biologist at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in New York, has been studying rain forest insects in Puerto Rico since the 1970s. If Puerto Rico is the island of enchantment — “la isla del encanto” — then its rain forest is “the enchanted forest on the enchanted isle,” he said. Birds and coqui frogs trill beneath a 50-foot-tall emerald canopy. The forest, named El Yunque, is well-protected. Spanish King Alfonso XII claimed the jungle as a 19th-century royal preserve. Decades later, Theodore Roosevelt made it a national reserve, and El Yunque remains the only tropical rain forest in the National Forest system.

“We went down in ’76, ’77 expressly to measure the resources: the insects and the insectivores in the rain forest, the birds, the frogs, the lizards,” Lister said.

He came back nearly 40 years later, with his colleague Andrés García, an ecologist at the National Autonomous University of Mexico. What the scientists did not see on their return troubled them. “Boy, it was immediately obvious when we went into that forest,” Lister said. Fewer birds flitted overhead. The butterflies, once abundant, had all but vanished.

García and Lister once again measured the forest’s insects and other invertebrates, a group called arthropods that includes spiders and centipedes. The researchers trapped arthropods on the ground in plates covered in a sticky glue, and raised several more plates about three feet into the canopy. The researchers also swept nets over the brush hundreds of times, collecting the critters that crawled through the vegetation.

Each technique revealed the biomass (the dry weight of all the captured invertebrates) had significantly decreased from 1976 to the present day. The sweep sample biomass decreased to a fourth or an eighth of what it had been. Between January 1977 and January 2013, the catch rate in the sticky ground traps fell 60-fold.

“Everything is dropping,” Lister said. The most common invertebrates in the rain forest — the moths, the butterflies, the grasshoppers, the spiders and others — are all far less abundant.

“Holy crap,” Wagner said of the 60-fold loss.

Louisiana State University entomologist Timothy Schowalter, who is not an author of the recent report, has studied this forest since the 1990s. The new research is consistent with his data, as well as the European biomass studies. “It takes these long-term sites, with consistent sampling across a long period of time, to document these trends,” he said. “I find their data pretty compelling.”

The study authors also trapped anole lizards, which eat arthropods, in the rain forest. They compared these numbers with counts from the 1970s. Anole biomass dropped by more than 30 percent. Some anole species have altogether disappeared from the interior forest.

Insect-eating frogs and birds plummeted, too. Another research team used mist nets to capture birds in 1990, and again in 2005. Captures fell by about 50 percent. Garcia and Lister analyzed the data with an eye on the insectivores. The ruddy quail dove, which eats fruits and seeds, had no population change. A brilliant green bird called the Puerto Rican tody, which eats bugs almost exclusively, diminished by 90 percent.

The food web appears to have been obliterated from the bottom. It’s credible that the authors link the cascade to arthropod loss, Schowalter said, because “you have all these different taxa showing the same trends — the insectivorous birds, frogs and lizards — but you don’t see those among seed-feeding birds.”

Lister and Garcia attribute this crash to climate. In the same 40-year period as the arthropod crash, the average high temperature in the rain forest increased by 4 degrees Fahrenheit. The temperatures in the tropics stick to a narrow band. The invertebrates that live there, likewise, are adapted to these temperatures and fare poorly outside them; bugs cannot regulate their internal heat.


A recent analysis of climate change and insects, published in August in the journal Science, predicts a decrease in tropical insect populations, according to an author of that study, Scott Merrill, who studies crop pests at the University of Vermont. In temperate regions farther from the equator, where insects can survive a wider range of temperatures, agricultural pests will devour more food as their metabolism increases, Merrill and his co-authors warned. But after a certain thermal threshold, insects will no longer lay eggs, he said, and their internal chemistry breaks down.

The authors of a 2017 study of vanished flying insects in Germany suggested other possible culprits, including pesticides and habitat loss. Arthropods around the globe also have to contend with pathogens and invasive species.

“It’s bewildering, and I’m scared to death that it’s actually death by a thousand cuts,” Wagner said. “One of the scariest parts about it is that we don’t have an obvious smoking gun here.” A particular danger to these arthropods, in his view, was not temperature but droughts and lack of rainfall.

Lister pointed out that, since 1969, pesticide use has fallen more than 80 percent in Puerto Rico. He does not know what else could be to blame. The study authors used a recent analytic method, invented by a professor of economics at Fordham University, to assess the role of heat. “It allows you to place a likelihood on variable X causing variable Y,” Lister said. “So we did that and then five out of our six populations we got the strongest possible support for heat causing those decreases in abundance of frogs and insects.”

The authors sorted out the effects of weather like hurricanes and still saw a consistent trend, Schowalter said, which makes a convincing case for climate.

“If anything, I think their results and caveats are understated. The gravity of their findings and ramifications for other animals, especially vertebrates, is hyperalarming,” Wagner said. But he is not convinced that climate change is the global driver of insect loss. “The decline of insects in northern Europe precedes that of climate change there,” he said. “Likewise, in New England, some tangible declines began in the 1950s.”

No matter the cause, all of the scientists agreed that more people should pay attention to the bugpocalypse.

“It’s a very scary thing,” Merrill said, that comes on the heels of a “gloomy, gloomy” U.N. report that estimated the world has little more than a decade left to wrangle climate change under control. But “we can all step up,” he said, by using more fuel-efficient cars and turning off unused electronics. The Portland, Ore.-based Xerces Society, a nonprofit environmental group that promotes insect conservation, recommends planting a garden with native plants that flower throughout the year.

“Unfortunately, we have deaf ears in Washington,” Schowalter said. But those ears will listen at some point, he said, because our food supply will be in jeopardy.

Thirty-five percent of the world’s plant crops require pollination by bees, wasps and other animals. And arthropods are more than just pollinators. They’re the planet’s wee custodians, toiling away in unnoticed or avoided corners. They chew up rotting wood and eat carrion. “And none of us want to have more carcasses around,” Schowalter said. Wild insects provide $57 billion worth of six-legged labor in the United States each year, according to a 2006 estimate.

The loss of insects and arthropods could further rend the rain forest’s food web, Lister warned, causing plant species to go extinct without pollinators. “If the tropical forests go it will be yet another catastrophic failure of the whole Earth system,” he said, “that will feed back on human beings in an almost unimaginable way.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2018/10/15/hyperalarming-study-shows-massive-insect-loss/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e62126785614




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Amandistan

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2018, 03:17:10 PM »
There are still far too many in hot, humid climates. Even in Eastern Europe, there is not shortage of them. Keep in mind that mosquitos and cockroaches have no positives. 
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Whirlwind

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2018, 06:45:17 PM »
Why this absurd concern for insects?

As The Clash so pointedly said:
"Please save us not the whales."

Think about it.

Pol

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2018, 08:31:46 PM »

No insects   --  No us in the long/ maybe not so long run



Think about that
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Whirlwind

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2018, 09:40:58 PM »

No insects   --  No us in the long/ maybe not so long run


That's just words. There is no conclusive proof that man would become extinct if insects were gone.

Pol

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Whirlwind

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2018, 03:29:39 AM »
You mean like this

http://thescienceexplorer.com/nature/what-would-happen-if-all-earth-s-insects-vanished

Uhh, did you read that? I read it and can once more safely say no bother to man if every insect dies.

They make the point about pollination. Insects (along with winds ands animals) pollinate much of our plant life. You know what? If insects were gone, man would surely find  a way to pollinate (hell, we do that now).

That article also makes the point that if insects were gone, oh, my God, we would no longer have honey and silk! We are doomed!!! How can makind live without silk sheets?!?

Folks, read that link and learn that absolutely nothing but good would come from insects leaving us. Ever hear of malaria? A killer of millions. That would be gone. I'll take a loss of silk and malaria over insects.

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2018, 02:39:54 PM »

The Scottish midges seem to be surviving strongly the wee fckers.

Perhaps they're a bit like cockroaches - would survive a nuclear war  ;D



We had a highland midge crawling around on the dashboard of our car on our way back down from a holiday up there last year. It stopped moving and expired just as we crossed the English border !!  ::)

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2018, 02:44:34 PM »
You mean like this

http://thescienceexplorer.com/nature/what-would-happen-if-all-earth-s-insects-vanished

Uhh, did you read that? I read it and can once more safely say no bother to man if every insect dies.

They make the point about pollination. Insects (along with winds ands animals) pollinate much of our plant life. You know what? If insects were gone, man would surely find  a way to pollinate (hell, we do that now).

That article also makes the point that if insects were gone, oh, my God, we would no longer have honey and silk! We are doomed!!! How can makind live without silk sheets?!?

Folks, read that link and learn that absolutely nothing but good would come from insects leaving us. Ever hear of malaria? A killer of millions. That would be gone. I'll take a loss of silk and malaria over insects.

And what about the tens of thousands of species of animals that depend entirely on insects for food, or eat animals that eat insects ?  Fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, mammals, all would be wiped out. Oh, but us humans with our technology may be able to pollinate plants artificially you say. Big deal. Life wouldn't be worth living if we were the only living things left.

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2018, 03:42:29 PM »
There are still far too many in hot, humid climates. Even in Eastern Europe, there is not shortage of them. Keep in mind that mosquitos and cockroaches have no positives.

Mosquitoes are food for bats, and swallows and swifts :)

Whirlwind

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Re: Where are all the Insects ?
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2018, 05:02:03 PM »
And what about the tens of thousands of species of animals that depend entirely on insects for food,
They'll eat other things.

Hey, if the nearest McDonalds is closed for the night and you are hungry, don't you find other things to eat? Animals will do the same.